color-me-damned asked: I'm pansexual but do think there might be differences in the way cis women/trans women and cis men/trans men are socialized which could then lead to different behaviors. I.e. a cis man may have lived his whole life with male privilege versus a trans man who might not have, and these leading to differences in socialization later in life. (Same obviously for women) This is more of a personality attraction though, and not an attraction to bodies themselves, which would be transphobic, right?
if you’re implying that it’s justifiable not to be attracted to trans women on the basis of them being socialized differently from cis women then that is profoundly transmisogynist, especially if you believe that the difference in socialization here is related to trans women receiving male privilege as opposed to trans women being extremely marginalized
fucking always with this dualistic fucking socialization shit.
it’s such a tired act in defense of hating trans women that i’m not sorry i never believe anyone when they insist “socialization affecting behavior” is the reason they shun us (whether romantically or otherwise—i don’t particularly wanna touch cis people with this gross fucking point of view).
Plus it’s a cognitive bias. Like that study that was circulated around that showed that people interpret identical behavior from an infant differently based on whether they are told the infant is a boy or a girl. Like, a trans woman’s behavior can be anything, but viewed through the cognitive bias of “trans women are socialized as men” it’s constantly reframed as “male entitlement” or “male anger” etc. Similarly, trans men who engage in really obnoxiously misogynist behavior can be (and often are) viewed through a cognitive bias that reframes them as “socialized as women” it turns into something else that, well, we see what happens there. The guys who do this often make a point of invoking their so-called “female socialization” to get away with it - and trans women who call them on it are asserting their so-called “male socialization.”
I just wonder how the people who spout this business were raised. Did their parents keep them in a dark room away from all media and other people and directly tell them, “Well, my [son/daughter], as a [boy/girl] these are the things you need to know about yourself.”?
Because that’s not how I was raised. I was socialized in a media-rich environment, in group settings and classrooms with two or three dozen people. For every fleeting instance when a teacher may have singled me out for attention based on my apparent gender, there were hours of just being part of a group that was receiving messages about boys and girls and the same time.
We had the same classes. We had the same media exposure. We heard the same messages. Society just sort of trusted that we’d sort out how they’d apply to us.
And when you’re primarily absorbing socialization aimed at girls, having intervals punctuated with stuff like “You’re a boy, act like it!” doesn’t instill a sense of confidence or entitlement, believe me.
Notice too how color-me-damned avoid specifically saying “trans women are male socialized” and instead used trans men vs. “female socialization” as a way to imply it.
I really think this is a lot more common than people realize, that trans men are not just invoking female socialization to get out of being called out for misogyny and transmisogyny but to imply that trans women are male socialized and dangerous men like entities as a way to continue to gain more social capital from cis circles by ostracizing and harming trans women. Cis people obviously already do this on purpose (and will overtly claim that trans women have “male socialization”) but some cis people will take the same weasel words route that trans men do if they want to not be called transmisogynist and still be active in circles where trans women are at least tokenized, if not valued.
Like at this point I think they’re doing this shit on purpose.
I don’t know if it’s changed in the past few years but I do recall seeing a trans man specifically harassing Tobi Hill-Meyer on the LH transgender community, on her post about having a girlhood, “informing” her that she was socialized as a male and had male privilege. As it turned out this particular dude was actually an abuser.
So trans men do pull this explicitly as well as implicitly. Probably still do.
And it’s so often trans men abusers who pull it. Imagine that.
True. The ploy itself is abusive.